Wonderful discussion on sweet sorghum and red proso. I have some experience with both. *First sweet sorghum*: "Sweet" can be confusing, because all plants produce sugars and vary by plant stage. 1. *Molasses* is the "ingredient" on our label of Grandma's Original Molasses which I use in merinations before smoking meats. Checking their website indicates it is made from sugarcane, not sweet sorghum. 2. *Sugar content*, and type of sugar of sorghum, sudangrass, pearl millet, corn, and even forage soybean varies significantly in plants depending on date of harvest. See Table 9 of my patent to determine optimum harvest for various crops to maximize ethanol potential (7) (PDF) Systems and processes for producing biofuels from biomass (researchgate.net) <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/302705921_Systems_and_processes_for_producing_biofuels_from_biomass>. I tested eleven different forages with mainly three different harvest dates (58, 102, and 132 days after planting) and evaluated changes in sucrose, fructose, and glucose. *Millex 32 hybrid pearl millet*, for example, had no plant sugars detected at 58 days, 7% at 102 days, and 10.96% at 132 days with each plant sugar significantly different depending on harvest date. Highest sugar content of this pearl millet was fructose followed by glucose. *Trudan Headless Sudangrass* had 9.72% total sugars at 58 days, 13.92% at 102 days, and 16.08% at 132 days with double the sucrose compared to other sugars. *HiKane II Forage Sorghum* (2 test dates) total sugars peaked at 102 days at 25.5% and dropped to 16.78% by 132 day test.* Derry Forage Soybeans* (2 test dates) had 5.6% total sugars at 102 days with 5.04% being fructose and 0.591% being sucrose. However, at 132 days Derry had NO sucrose and about equal amounts of fructose and glucose. 3. *Corn sugars*: About thirty years ago as an agronomist, I realized corn sugars in plants varied significantly and could be manipulated genetically, chemically, and mechanically. (Review the same Table 9 from my patent.) I tested a common hybrid #2 dent corn (NK N40T) and removed ears mechanically. Results were shocking! At 102 days the whole plant (with ear) tested 12.23% total sugars, but only 2.338% total sugars at 132 days. I removed ear(s) before pollination with results showing 25.87% total sugars at 102 days--rising to 27.15% total sugars at 118 days, then sugars dropped to 15.57% at 132 days. Sucrose was by far the top sugar at 102 and 118 days (17.8% and 21.0% respectively), but sucrose dropped to 0.00% at 132 days. There is no doubt in my mind that dent corns could produce, and extract, over 30% sugars. That is why my patent can harvest standing crops approaching physiological maturity and produce ethanol with 100% pumpable liquid in 24-72 hours WITHOUT any additional water. *Red Proso Millet* is still produced in the U.S. in limited quantities and is occasionally mixed in birdfeed to give it color. Consumers would rather buy high content white proso millet birdfeed mixes with a bit of red proso blended in although birds prefer white as Dipak indicated. He also noted that Certified *Cerise* red proso is still available. Full season, *Akron*, a dark red proso, has a compact seedhead and was released by Colorado in 1969. On the early side, *Early Fortune*, is a short red proso and one of the earliest maturing prosos (heads 30-40 days after planting). There may be a few farmers in Northern areas still storing or reproducing *Early Fortune*, but since 1992, I am not aware who they may be, but this variety can hopefully be sourced from seed banks. *Turghai*, introduced in the U.S. by USDA from Russia/Siberia in 1903, was the only variety of red proso that was available as Certified seed from Colorado before 1968. In the 1980s I was in fields of *Turghai* which were easily distinguishable from other reds by their spreading panicals. Unless you shell out heads approaching maturity, *Turghai* appeared similar to *Minsum* white proso (released by Minnesota in 1980) because both have a very open seedhead which speeds drydown. (For more details on proso varieties, see Appendix 1, pages 181-189, in my book *How to Produce Proso Millet: A Farmer's Guide* (7) (PDF) How to Produce Proso Millet: A Farmer's Guide (researchgate.net) <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284179184_How_to_Produce_Proso_Millet_A_Farmer's_Guide>.) For photos of *Minsum* see pages 86 and 89. Page 86 shows a red proso I pulled from a North Dakota farm which at the time I thought was *Cerise*, but it could have been *Early Fortune*. I hope this background helps....Gary Wietgrefe
Gary that is helpful. Are you aware of any difference in the quality of the hulled proso millet in food products? Have you seen any analysis of how it differs from the white? On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 12:43 PM Gary Wietgrefe via Collab < collab@lists.millets2023.space> wrote:
Wonderful discussion on sweet sorghum and red proso. I have some experience with both.
*First sweet sorghum*: "Sweet" can be confusing, because all plants produce sugars and vary by plant stage.
1. *Molasses* is the "ingredient" on our label of Grandma's Original Molasses which I use in merinations before smoking meats. Checking their website indicates it is made from sugarcane, not sweet sorghum. 2. *Sugar content*, and type of sugar of sorghum, sudangrass, pearl millet, corn, and even forage soybean varies significantly in plants depending on date of harvest. See Table 9 of my patent to determine optimum harvest for various crops to maximize ethanol potential (7) (PDF) Systems and processes for producing biofuels from biomass (researchgate.net) <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/302705921_Systems_and_processes_for_producing_biofuels_from_biomass>. I tested eleven different forages with mainly three different harvest dates (58, 102, and 132 days after planting) and evaluated changes in sucrose, fructose, and glucose. *Millex 32 hybrid pearl millet*, for example, had no plant sugars detected at 58 days, 7% at 102 days, and 10.96% at 132 days with each plant sugar significantly different depending on harvest date. Highest sugar content of this pearl millet was fructose followed by glucose. *Trudan Headless Sudangrass* had 9.72% total sugars at 58 days, 13.92% at 102 days, and 16.08% at 132 days with double the sucrose compared to other sugars. *HiKane II Forage Sorghum* (2 test dates) total sugars peaked at 102 days at 25.5% and dropped to 16.78% by 132 day test.* Derry Forage Soybeans* (2 test dates) had 5.6% total sugars at 102 days with 5.04% being fructose and 0.591% being sucrose. However, at 132 days Derry had NO sucrose and about equal amounts of fructose and glucose. 3. *Corn sugars*: About thirty years ago as an agronomist, I realized corn sugars in plants varied significantly and could be manipulated genetically, chemically, and mechanically. (Review the same Table 9 from my patent.) I tested a common hybrid #2 dent corn (NK N40T) and removed ears mechanically. Results were shocking! At 102 days the whole plant (with ear) tested 12.23% total sugars, but only 2.338% total sugars at 132 days. I removed ear(s) before pollination with results showing 25.87% total sugars at 102 days--rising to 27.15% total sugars at 118 days, then sugars dropped to 15.57% at 132 days. Sucrose was by far the top sugar at 102 and 118 days (17.8% and 21.0% respectively), but sucrose dropped to 0.00% at 132 days. There is no doubt in my mind that dent corns could produce, and extract, over 30% sugars. That is why my patent can harvest standing crops approaching physiological maturity and produce ethanol with 100% pumpable liquid in 24-72 hours WITHOUT any additional water.
*Red Proso Millet* is still produced in the U.S. in limited quantities and is occasionally mixed in birdfeed to give it color. Consumers would rather buy high content white proso millet birdfeed mixes with a bit of red proso blended in although birds prefer white as Dipak indicated. He also noted that Certified *Cerise* red proso is still available. Full season, *Akron*, a dark red proso, has a compact seedhead and was released by Colorado in 1969. On the early side, *Early Fortune*, is a short red proso and one of the earliest maturing prosos (heads 30-40 days after planting). There may be a few farmers in Northern areas still storing or reproducing *Early Fortune*, but since 1992, I am not aware who they may be, but this variety can hopefully be sourced from seed banks. *Turghai*, introduced in the U.S. by USDA from Russia/Siberia in 1903, was the only variety of red proso that was available as Certified seed from Colorado before 1968. In the 1980s I was in fields of *Turghai* which were easily distinguishable from other reds by their spreading panicals. Unless you shell out heads approaching maturity, *Turghai* appeared similar to *Minsum* white proso (released by Minnesota in 1980) because both have a very open seedhead which speeds drydown. (For more details on proso varieties, see Appendix 1, pages 181-189, in my book *How to Produce Proso Millet: A Farmer's Guide* (7) (PDF) How to Produce Proso Millet: A Farmer's Guide (researchgate.net) <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284179184_How_to_Produce_Proso_Millet_A_Farmer's_Guide>.) For photos of *Minsum* see pages 86 and 89. Page 86 shows a red proso I pulled from a North Dakota farm which at the time I thought was *Cerise*, but it could have been *Early Fortune*.
I hope this background helps....Gary Wietgrefe
-- Collab mailing list Collab@lists.millets2023.space https://lists.millets2023.space/mailman/listinfo/collab
participants (2)
-
Gary Wietgrefe -
Joni Kindwall-Moore