I appreciate your map comments. Here are my simple responses:
1. Yes, "Japanese" millet is problematic without scientific names. Indian barnyard millet (E. frumentacea) seems like a nice clarification and Japanese barnyard millet (E. esculenta) the common one planted in the U.S. mainly for non-seed harvesting would make references easier.
2. I highly doubt much millet of any kind is grown in Japan. See my 1989 comments about U.S. exports to Japan (p-.91-92 in Proso Millet: A Trade Summary) and Argentine millet exports to Japan (pg. 120).
3. Japan has probably been importing millet shortly after WWII occupation. Farmland is so valuable, and millet relatively an economical import that Japan would find it much more economical to import. About twenty years ago when I was testing various millets for ethanol, Japanese were most interested in glutenous proso rather than common proso millet. I've never seen a request in Japan for Japanese millet, however, I have been out of that loop way too long to be knowledgeable about Japanese millet imports. Like other countries, Japan millet imports are very likely used as a rice substitute/supplement.
4. Can Japanese barnyard millet be grown in the U.S./Canada (more humid areas) and harvested for seed for human consumption? Sure it can. But, what is possible is often unlikely. Why? Japanese barnyard millet produced in any Corn Belt state would likely be discriminated against for the same reason proso millet is not grown in the Corn Belt. First, it is not price competitive with corn or soybeans. Secondly, and most importantly, volunteer Japanese barnyard millet would be construed to be a "barnyard" grassy weed, or potential one--just like proso millet is confused by agronomists and farmers in the Corn Belt with wild proso millet. To me, their ignorance is astounding about proso for grain. I know. Traveling around the country as an agronomist, I've had those discussions. I wasted breath. However, those using millets, including Japanese, in cover crops and wildlife plots have spread beyond southeastern U.S., but we can assume it is mixed with other seed species with very very little harvested for grain.
5. Are both E. frumentacea and E. esculenta grown throughout the U.S.? My assumption is NO. Based on seed suppliers, at least ones that list the type of Japanese millet (i.e. Johnston Seed), I must assume E. esculenta may be the only type used.

I am not an expert on Japanese millet and look forward to July's discussions....Gary



On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 10:30 PM <collab-request@lists.millets2023.space> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Echinochloa spp. / Japanese / barnyard (Re: Collab Digest,
      Vol 17, Issue 11) (Don Osborn)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 00:30:20 -0400
From: Don Osborn <don@milletsalliance.org>
To: collab@lists.millets2023.space
Subject: [Collab] Echinochloa spp. / Japanese / barnyard (Re: Collab
        Digest, Vol 17, Issue 11)
Message-ID:
        <CA+RHibU90SMEAHDhpqeskOU=S+Uyg1wKbxHrKVCGQT6fb6rS-A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you, Gary, this is helpful.

I have the impression that the appellation Echinochloa crus-galli (var.)
frumentacea is fairly old, so any confusion would not be your fault. A USDA
guide has it listed as an "alternate" scientific name for E. esculenta./1
On the other hand, the GRIN database has this same name as a synonym for E.
frumentacea,/2 The scientific namespace for these species is
challenging, so as not to say confusing. However, the various and sometimes
overlapping common name usages are even more so, with that of "Japanese
millet" seeming to me to be particularly problematic (as a sometimes
catch-all)

I personally (again, without claiming any expertise) found it useful to
think of the two lines as "Japanese barnyard millet" (E. esculenta) and
"Indian barnyard millet" (E. frumentacea)./3 /4  The latter seems to be
produced for food, primarily in India, much more than the former, but in
the US is sometimes called "billion dollar grass."

In the US, as you point out in your book,/5 and which I noted also in the
USDA descriptions,/1 /6 these species are grown primarily for forage and
wildlife. It looks like the seed that you note is available in the US from
Johnston Seeds and Specialty Seeds, is mainly intended for these uses.

As far as I can tell, most "barnyard millet" in food products is Indian
barnyard millet (E. frumentacea), and is produced and packaged in India./7
One would assume that food grade Japanese barnyard millet (E. esculenta) is
still cultivated in parts of Japan. It is apparently also grown in Europe
for grain for food,/8 /9 although it's hard to be certain about the
species. I'm  personally wondering if food grade E. esculenta might be a
potential crop for the conditions of the more humid areas of northern US
and southern Canada./10

Finally, a couple of comments about the map (fig. 20) on p. 201 of your
book/5 (a copy of the map is attached). First, it is helpful to have such
overview maps of millets in North America, even though this is now over 3
decades old. Second, I'm noting from your source for Japanese millet's
placement on the map,  that even though this millet may be most grown in
the SE US, it is also present across the continental US. I'd be curious to
know how its distribution compares, say, with E. frumentacea (to the extent
one can be clear that names in different sources are being used in a
consistent way).

Anyway, that's a lot more detail than I had intended to get into. However,
it's useful to try to clarify some of the nomenclature and verify that
there are indeed two main cultivated species of Echinochloa, before we get
to talking about "barnyard millet(s)" as millet-of-the-month in July.

All the best,
Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA

Notes:
1. See the USDA plant guide for E. esculenta - both under alternate names
and a couple of the references dating to the 1980s:
https://plants.usda.gov/DocumentLibrary/plantguide/pdf/pg_eces.pdf
2. USDA GRIN database "Taxon: Echinochloa frumentacea (Echinochloa colona
Frumentacea Group)"
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxon/taxonomydetail?id=14828
3. The following recent article also uses this common name distinction, in
the context of a very useful survey of the two "complexes," along with a
third of lesser importance that I may return to later: Renganathan VG,
Vanniarajan C, Karthikeyan A, Ramalingam J. "Barnyard Millet for Food and
Nutritional Security: Current Status and Future Research Direction."
Frontiers in  Genetics. 2020 Jun 23;11:500.
https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffgene.2020.00500  PMID: 32655612; PMCID:
PMC7325689.
4. The USDA GRIN database also lists these common names, citing a 1992
article by H. Scholz in Taxon https://doi.org/10.2307/1222824 . From the
GRIN page on Echinochloa, at
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/cropdetail?type=species&id=224 , go
to the pages for E. esculenta and E. frumentacea and select the tab "Common
names" to see.
5. I downloaded it from
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284179184_How_to_Produce_Proso_Millet_A_Farmer%27s_Guide
6. See discussion in the context of one particular variety of E.
frumentacea at https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/plantmaterials/mspmcrb13988.pdf
7. https://www.pinterest.com/drdonosborn/millets-plural/barnyard-millet/
8. For example, "Japanese barnyard millet grits" from a Lithuanian farm
(per "Place of Origin")
https://www.urbanfood.lt/en/japanese-millet-grits-500-g
9. An interesting survey in French of millets in France, posted on LinkedIn
by Philippe Pointereau, mentions "millet japonais (Echinochloa
frumentacea)," but without clarity as to whether and for what this is
cultivated there:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7075488061702168576/
10. Interestingly, Michigan Flora notes E. esculenta in the wild -
"occasionally cultivated and escaped" - in two counties in the SW of the
state: https://michiganflora.net/record/2869
11. Mitchell, Wilma A. 1989. Japanese millet ("Echinochloa Crusgalli" var.
"frumentacea") : Section 7.1.6, US Army Corps of Engineers wildlife
resources management manual
 https://erdc-library.erdc.dren.mil/jspui/handle/11681/7217


On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 11:05?AM Joni Kindwall-Moore <
joni@snacktivistfoods.com> wrote:

> Thanks Gary
>
> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 4:13?PM Gary Wietgrefe via Collab <
> collab@lists.millets2023.space> wrote:
>
>> More on Japanese millet:
>> In the back of my 1990 book, *How to Produce Proso Millet: A Farmer's
>> Guide,* I describe several other millets that had been grown in the
>> U.S., Japanese millet was one (pp. 197-198). Perhaps I led to some of the
>> confusion as I subtitled the category Echinochloa Crusgalli/Frumentacea.
>> In the 1980s, a South Dakota seed company tried to grow Japanese millet,
>> I assume Echinochloa esculenta, for seed. It was not a particularly good
>> year for crops in general and my field inspection indicated it was not as
>> drought hardy as proso or foxtail millets we customarily grow at this
>> latitude. The seed company, which sold out twenty years ago, did not try to
>> grow it again (to my knowledge).
>> Lastly, there is production of Japanese millet, Echinochloa esculenta, in
>> the U.S. See link to Johnson Seed Company, Enid, OK which offers 50 lb/bags
>> for $57.00 (=$1.14 lb. for seed) which seems reasonable JAPANESE MILLET
>> - Johnston Seed Company
>> <https://www.johnstonseed.com/product/japanese-millet/>. Southeast Seed
>> Inc., Trenton, FL also offers Japanese millet for sale Home - Southeast
>> Seed Inc <https://southeastseed.com/> as does Speciality Seed Co. out of
>> Anguilla, MS Japanese Millet - Specialty Seed
>> <https://specialtyseed.com/japanese-millet/>.
>>
>> I hope this provides some clarification....Gary Wietgrefe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 12:50?PM <collab-request@lists.millets2023.space>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Send Collab mailing list submissions to
>>>         collab@lists.millets2023.space
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         https://lists.millets2023.space/mailman/listinfo/collab
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>         collab-request@lists.millets2023.space
>>>
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>>>         collab-owner@lists.millets2023.space
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Collab digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Echinocloa spp. / Japanese / barnyard (Re: National Public
>>>       Radio on millets, June 8, 2023) (Don Osborn)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 14:50:12 -0400
>>> From: Don Osborn <don@milletsalliance.org>
>>> To: "collab@lists.millets2023.space" <collab@lists.millets2023.space>
>>> Cc: Joni Kindwall-Moore <joni@snacktivistfoods.com>, Dipak Santra
>>>         <dsantra2@unl.edu>,  "Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS"
>>>         <david.brenner@usda.gov>
>>> Subject: [Collab] Echinocloa spp. / Japanese / barnyard (Re: National
>>>         Public Radio on millets, June 8, 2023)
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <CA+RHibWMpVQCuwjyBxY4j03XJKr0vB8on7=
>>> izdx4k3QFEp2i2Q@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Thanks Dipak for your clarifications, and Joni for your question. I'm
>>> proposing to retitle this fork in the thread to make it easier for others
>>> to find later in the list archives.
>>>
>>> I'm interested in clarifying this space, because there are two species of
>>> Echinochloa (primarily) that are referred to with various related common
>>> names, and sometimes the same one. Here's my layperson's understanding of
>>> what is obviously a very complicated space:
>>>
>>> * E. esculenta, is apparently descended from the wild E. crus-galli, and
>>> domesticated in Japan as a food crop./1 I see one extension page where
>>> E.
>>> crus-galli is listed as a forage crop, with the common name "barnyard
>>> grass,"/2 and others where E. esculenta with common name "Japanese
>>> millet,"
>>> is also listed as a forage crop,/3 or cover crop as DIpak indicated. E.
>>> esculenta is often called Japanese millet or Japanese barnyard millet.
>>>
>>> * E. frumentacea, is apparently descended from the wild E. colona, and
>>> domesticated somewhere in South Asia (?)./4 E. frumentacea as a forage
>>> crop
>>> is also called Japanese millet,/5 unhelpfully, as well as billion dollar
>>> grass./6  It is sometimes considered a weed./7 I have the impression that
>>> most if not all of the commercialized "barnyard millet" food products
>>> from
>>> India are from E. frumentacea. Another term is "Indian barnyard millet."
>>>
>>> One extension site, also unhelpfully, lumps the two species together
>>> under
>>> the name "Japanese millet," as forage crops./8
>>>
>>> I'd be most interested to know of cases where either of the above are
>>> grown
>>> in North America for food quality grain, on a commercial  or even a
>>> small-scale, basis, for whatever use or market. No idea, Joni, about the
>>> particular issues with dehulling any of these.
>>>
>>> This is very quick and inadequate, but hopefully not misleading.
>>>
>>> By the way, this subgroup of millets will collectively be the
>>> "millet-of-the-month," under the heading "barnyard millet," in July
>>>
>>> Don.
>>>
>>> DO, EL, MI, US
>>> NAMA
>>>
>>> Notes (sorry, these were hastily and unsystematically gathered):
>>> 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinochloa_esculenta
>>> 2.
>>>
>>> https://www.misin.msu.edu/facts/detail/?project=misin&id=256&cname=Barnyardgrass
>>> 3.
>>>
>>> https://www.canr.msu.edu/potatooutreach/research/mpic%20report%202018%20updated.pdf
>>> (page 93)
>>> 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinochloa_frumentacea
>>> 5. For example at
>>>
>>> https://midwestcovercrops.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/MCCC_Proceedings-2012.pdf
>>> (page 51 in the concatenation of documents with individual page numbers)
>>> 6. https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/plantmaterials/mspmcrb13988.pdf (this
>>> document
>>> concerns a variety called "chiwapa")
>>> 7. https://weedid.cals.vt.edu/profile/237
>>> 8. https://www.midwestcovercrops.org/species/grasses/millet/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 1:28?PM Joni Kindwall-Moore <
>>> joni@snacktivistfoods.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Has anyone had experience with dehulling Japanese millet? Is it
>>> similar to
>>> > dehulling Proso millet?
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 2:06?PM Dipak Santra via Collab <
>>> > collab@lists.millets2023.space> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Japanese millet (Echinochloa esculenta), also called barnyard millet,
>>> >> possibly is used in cover crop mix and as human food 9after dehulling
>>> (like
>>> >> other millet) for ethnic population (mainly Indian) in North America.
>>> It is
>>> >> very popular in India grocery stores what I have seen.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dipak
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dipak Santra, Ph.D.
>>> >>
>>> >> *Associate Professor (Alternative Crops Breeding Specialist)*
>>> >>
>>> >> President, International Broomcorn Millet Association
>>> >>
>>> >> Department of Agronomy and Horticulture
>>> >>
>>> >> University of Nebraska?Lincoln
>>> >>
>>> >> Panhandle Research & Extension Center
>>> >>
>>> >> 4502 Ave I, Scottsbluff, NE 69361
>>> >>
>>> >> *(*308) 632-124 <3086321372>4 (work) / (*308) 765-2324* (cell)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> *From:* Collab <collab-bounces@lists.millets2023.space> *On Behalf
>>> Of *Don
>>> >> Osborn
>>> >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 10, 2023 10:47 PM
>>> >> *To:* Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS <david.brenner@usda.gov>
>>> >> *Cc:* collab@lists.millets2023.space
>>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Collab] National Public Radio on millets, June 8, 2023
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Non-NU Email
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you, David, I appreciate your sharing this. It's of course
>>> another
>>> >> version of the radio segment that aired last month on a more local
>>> scale
>>> >> (Kansas CIty, apparently):
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://www.kcur.org/2023-05-17/millets-drought-climate-united-nations
>>> >> <
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.kcur.org/2023-05-17/millets-drought-climate-united-nations__;!!PvXuogZ4sRB2p-tU!BRDQvnZU8qxQSiQ-O_iRtpRc8pS78j3wSvk59HaJWe3fq8FKBtcR3mGB5dwL6Vp7LODfOdAD5rPRXf8uiA$>
>>> .
>>> >> Altho shorter, the NPR Morning Edition version captures all the main
>>> >> points. And of course it went out nationally in the US, which is
>>> great.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Regarding the content of the segment, I'm particularly curious to know
>>> >> more about the Japanese millet (Echinochloa esculenta) that Linus
>>> >> Rothermich is growing - what are the markets for this grain in
>>> >> North America? I am aware of the plant's use as forage and for
>>> wildlife in
>>> >> the US.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> TIA for any more info,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Don
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> DO, EL, MI, US
>>> >>
>>> >> NAMA
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> bcc: Rob Myers
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 1:18?PM Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS <
>>> >> david.brenner@usda.gov> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1180964010/the-united-nations-declares-2023-the-international-year-of-millets
>>> >> <
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1180964010/the-united-nations-declares-2023-the-international-year-of-millets__;!!PvXuogZ4sRB2p-tU!BRDQvnZU8qxQSiQ-O_iRtpRc8pS78j3wSvk59HaJWe3fq8FKBtcR3mGB5dwL6Vp7LODfOdAD5rPaj-yTjg$
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>>> >> <
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1180964010/the-united-nations-declares-2023-the-international-year-of-millets__;!!PvXuogZ4sRB2p-tU!BRDQvnZU8qxQSiQ-O_iRtpRc8pS78j3wSvk59HaJWe3fq8FKBtcR3mGB5dwL6Vp7LODfOdAD5rPaj-yTjg$
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> The United Nations declares 2023 the International Year of Millets
>>> >> <
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1180964010/the-united-nations-declares-2023-the-international-year-of-millets__;!!PvXuogZ4sRB2p-tU!BRDQvnZU8qxQSiQ-O_iRtpRc8pS78j3wSvk59HaJWe3fq8FKBtcR3mGB5dwL6Vp7LODfOdAD5rPaj-yTjg$
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Millets, an alternative crop to corn and soybeans, is getting new
>>> >> attention in the U.S. The resilient grain could help U.S. farmers
>>> survive
>>> >> climate change.
>>> >>
>>> >> www.npr.org
>>> >> <
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.npr.org__;!!PvXuogZ4sRB2p-tU!BRDQvnZU8qxQSiQ-O_iRtpRc8pS78j3wSvk59HaJWe3fq8FKBtcR3mGB5dwL6Vp7LODfOdAD5rMg-dd1sw$
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA
>>> solely
>>> >> for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this
>>> message
>>> >> or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate
>>> the law
>>> >> and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you
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>>> >> have received this message in error, please notify the sender and
>>> delete
>>> >> the email immediately.
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of Collab Digest, Vol 17, Issue 11
>>> **************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Author, Gary W. Wietgrefe,
>> https://www.RelatingtoAncients.com/
>> *Destination North Pole--5,000 km by bicycle* is an exciting, endearing,
>> humorous, dangerous and sometimes quirky travel adventure. Hardcover,
>> paperback and e-books are available on Amazon or other on-line retailers.
>> My other books tie education, school system, parenting, technology, and
>> business with 21st century culture and learning.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Collab mailing list
>> Collab@lists.millets2023.space
>> https://lists.millets2023.space/mailman/listinfo/collab
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Author, Gary W. Wietgrefe,
https://www.RelatingtoAncients.com/
Destination North Pole--5,000 km by bicycle is an exciting, endearing, humorous, dangerous and sometimes quirky travel adventure. Hardcover, paperback and e-books are available on Amazon or other on-line retailers. My other books tie education, school system, parenting, technology, and business with 21st century culture and learning.